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Hey guys, I do not want to start a war of words here, but I was wondering if somebody would share a little of the history of these God Forsaken Apache molds everybody is squawking about. I know the Apache boats themselves pretty well, but I am clueless as to the history of the company, the various owners, and where it all stands today. Looking for a little Apache 101, without the BS opinions. Thanks.  

How much time ya got !!!!!!!! :winker: ??????  

Start here: http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1135936 Hence, the animosity.  

I think you said the Apache word - uh, oh. Let me grab the popcorn - these discussions always take some bad turns. Exciting for those who are just watching. :bigsmile: <a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZNxdm006YYUS' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/5/5_8_5.gif' alt='Sharing Popcorn' border=0></a>  

And: http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-18900.html  

Well lets start with the fact that Don Aronow had his hand in them and here´s a link to good thread. Apache is Back  

obnoxus said: How much time ya got !!!!!!!! :winker: ?????? Click to expand...

Somebody delete my thread.............I knew this wouldn't be easy! Thanks for the links so far. By the way, did Don Aronow help with the first Formula hulls?  

Oh boy, I just visited the sites you guys linked up here! What a cluster fudge. Once again, forget I asked.  

Don Aronow started Formula. I believe it was his first company. Ben Kramer started Apache Powerboats with Bobby Saccenti from the 41 mold given to Ben by Don A. Bobby owned and operated Apache "Performance Boats" that made the 22' 28' and 36'. The 36' molds were sold to Concept. When Ben went to prison for drug running, Mark McManus was appointed by the U.S gov. to run the company. McManus worked for Don A. at Cig and worked for Ben at Apache. Today McManus owns and runs Apache.  

I think Wynne did the Formula 23 for Don too.  

Jim Wynne was probably the main guy behind the first Formula and Donzi designs, but Don Aronow got the credit. Yes, Ben Kramer started Apache Performance Boats, but not with molds Don Aronow gave him. Aronow never GAVE anyone anything. I understood that the molds were modified Cigarette molds that Aronow held onto after he sold Cigarette. Since Aronow signed a non-compete clause with Cigarette, forbidding him from designing or selling V- hull boats for 5 years after the sale, he secretly was helping Kramer build Apaches with the molds. I`m sure he screwed Kramer on those molds somehow. And on February 5, 1987 Aronow was gunned down on Thunderboat Row by Robert Young, who was hired by none other than Ben Kramer. .............Pull up a chair and put on another pot of coffee, this is just starting to get good.  

This is exactly what I was hoping for! Good stuff. Question: Did Aronow have it coming, in a Tony Soprano kinda way? Not that murdering someone is ok, but you get my drift.....  

pasquesi said: This is exactly what I was hoping for! Good stuff. Question: Did Aronow have it coming, in a Tony Soprano kinda way? Not that murdering someone is ok, but you get my drift..... Click to expand...

mirage257 said: As much as I like Don Aronow's boats , nobody gives credit to Jim Wynne . Jim Wynne made successful hulls that ment to run real offshore . Don Aronow asked Jim in 1962 or 63 to make him a hull for offshore race , hence a 64 28' Donzi , Rest is history :winker: . Click to expand...

Ok back to Apache! Ben and Don were said to be good friends. either way Don helped Apache by providing a hull, whatever their arrangement was.  

Attachments

Reminds me of the Doloreon deal. Except he got jail instead of a bullet. heh  

corrado1 said: Ok back to Apache! Ben and Don were said to be good friends. either way Don helped Apache by providing a hull, whatever their arrangement was. Click to expand...

Just recently, I became very interested in the life and times of Don Aronow. I read "Speed Kills". Seems to be pretty accurate about the events surrounding his murder and this book does devote a chapter to Aronow`s life and his history in boat racing. Most of the book is about his murder investigation. "Blue Thunder" is a similar book, but it`s author had his own theory about Aronow`s murder and the authorities have proven it wrong. "Don Aronow -- King of Thunder Boat Row" is a book mostly about Aronow himself, but it was penned by Michael Aronow (his son) so I`m sure all events were seen through rose-colored glasses. How did we get so far off the Apache subject?  

There are only a couple of people that truely know the inner workings of the beginning of Apache...and they aint talking. So don't believe everything you read. It's entertaining for sure but mostly opinions and hear say. Enjoy.  

DonMan said: Just recently, I became very interested in the life and times of Don Aronow. I read "Speed Kills". Seems to be pretty accurate about the events surrounding his murder and this book does devote a chapter to Aronow`s life and his history in boat racing. Most of the book is about his murder investigation. "Blue Thunder" is a similar book, but it`s author had his own theory about Aronow`s murder and the authorities have proven it wrong. "Don Aronow -- King of Thunder Boat Row" is a book mostly about Aronow himself, but it was penned by Michael Aronow (his son) so I`m sure all events were seen through rose-colored glasses. How did we get so far off the Apache subject? Click to expand...

DonMan said: I`m sure there may be a few of those guys who masturbate to photos of old Apache race boats. Click to expand...

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VÉHICULE Presents: The Rise & Fall of Ben Kramer

Excerpt from Paradise Lost: The Rise and Fall of Ben Kramer. Read the full story in VÉHICULE .

“Anglos tend to work the marijuana trade, while the cocaine market is controlled by Colombians and Cubans. No matter what their specialty, the illegal entrepreneurs can be easily spotted. Young Anglos wearing scruffy Levi’s and T-Shirts, gold Rolex watches and ropes of gold chain sit around the marinas waiting for the next call from a mother ship. Current pay for one night’s work piloting a ‘Cigarette’ averages $50,000, while the wages for unloading the bales are $5,000 to $10,000 a night.”

—Time Magazine, November 23, 1981, “Paradise Lost”  

Ben Kramer was not only one of those “Young Anglos” but used his money made in the drug business to build up his own powerboat company “Apache Powerboats” which he also regularly participated in offshore races with.

In the summer of 1977, two years after bailing out of prison and fleeing law enforcement for marijuana smuggling, Kramer was nabbed again. In something that could only be characterized as a lucky coincidence, a Hollywood police officer went to pull over a Cigarette that happened to be driven by Kramer. Kramer gave the officer the finger, pinned the throttle through a no-wake zone, and left the cop in a cloud of spray. Backup was called, eventually leading to the service of a plane being enlisted. Kramer felt the heat and made the split-second decision to beach his boat and flee on foot. He was captured shortly thereafter. He pled guilty to importation of cannabis and violating state probation, and was sentenced to four years in prison.

Kramer’s sentence ended up being one marked by anything but rehabilitation, and he went right back to his old ways upon release.  Federal authorities said he ran a criminal enterprise that distributed more than 500,000 pounds of marijuana nationwide between 1983 and 1986.

Kramer, at the time reigning U.S. open class offshore powerboat champion, was arrested four months after the Don Aronow killing and sentenced to life in prison as a “drug super kingpin”. He was later charged with the murder of Don Aronow…

We deal with the real-world events that accompanied some of powerboating's most pivotal moments. History, up until now, has been written by the so-called victors. We document all sides of the story, bringing them to light and presenting the facts for consideration.

Read more about the rise and fall of Kramer and Aronow in  VÉHICULE . #FREEBENKRAMER

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