sailboat rudder downhaul

By Al Meyer - Texas City, TX - USA

First, a confession up front. This article will not present any ingenious new idea, or reveal some lost secret of the ancient boatbuilder’s art. In fact, most boatbuilders likely already have their own favorite rudder downhaul systems. This is merely a greenhorn’s account of one step in a long journey on the learning curve.

A pivoting rudder blade is generally a good thing. I learned this lesson on my first sailboat. It had a pivoting rudder blade, but the previous owner had drilled and installed a second pin, in addition to the hinge pin, which effectively made the rudder a fixed blade type. This was not an issue until I ran hard aground on a submerged oyster reef. We had no idea the reef was there, so we were moving at a pretty decent speed when we hit. The centerboard rotated up into the trunk just like it should, but with the “fixed” rudder and the speed we were going, the force was enough to severely bend some fairly substantial pintles and gudgeons. I learned that lesson, and pulled the second pin, but the rudder blade had a nasty habit of “floating”, generally at inconvenient times.

When I built the Penobscot, the drawings showed a rotating rudder blade, but no details on how to keep it in either the up or down position. I decided “simple is best” and used a stainless steel bolt with a plastic-filled lock nut for the hinge pin. By using the right amount of torque, I had a friction fit between the cheeks on the rudder trunk and the blade. It could be manually moved to either the up or down position, and would stay there.

That idea worked well in theory, but not quite as well in practice. The transom on the Penobscot has a nice rake, so lowering or raising the rudder blade while underway meant sitting on the very back of the boat, reaching around and down to grab the rudder blade, and hoping that a gust of wind doesn’t do something funny because I’ve let go of the sheet and don’t have control of the sail while this is going on. There had to be a better, simple way.

The simplest option involved cutting a hole in the rudder blade and pouring in melted lead, such as is commonly done on centerboards. This option wouldn’t work on the Penobscot. With the raked transom and the pivot point located relatively far back on the rudder trunk, weighting the blade would hold it down, but directly below the pivot point and not parallel to the transom. Someone else suggested a piece of shock cord between the leading edge of the rudder blade and the rudder trunk; this seemed like a workable solution, but my own subjective (i.e., totally irrational) tastes didn’t like this approach on what I viewed as a traditionally-styled boat. As a third option, Iain Oughtred’s “ Clinker Plywood Boatbuilding Manual ” showed a rudder uphaul and downhaul system (Figures 7-52 thru 7-60) but my limited brain cells couldn’t figure out how the downhaul worked. Finally, a sketch in Wooden Boat on building the Caledonia Yawl answered the question (Wooden Boat No. 185, page 41).

Figure 1 - Adding weight to the rudder blade would keep the blade from floating, but it would hang directly below the pivot pin, not against the transom.

(click images for larger views)

I didn’t plan on needing an uphaul as raising the blade should not be an issue. The rudder blade should float on its own. I just wanted an easier way of keeping the rudder blade in the down position. I used a modified version of Oughtred’s downhaul. If experience dictates that an uphaul is needed, it should be simple enough to add later.

Figure 2 - Before starting any project, make sure you have adequate supervision. Somebody needs to make sure that grandpa doesn't foul up!

Figure 3 - In keeping with the "don't foul up" theme, a plywood template of the rudder blade is first used to test the idea.

Figure 4 - Here's the gist of the idea - a line with a stopper knot is routed from a hole near the leading edge of the blade, through the gap in the pintles, up to the tiller. It works!

Figure 5 - A hole will be bored through the tiller to guide the downhaul. The tiller has a tenon where it enters the rudder trunk, which is a stress concentration, so the downhaul will be brought forward and the hole drilled near the location shown.

Figure 6 - Now that I know the system will work, I've installed the "real" rudder blade. An eyelet mounted on the bottom of the trunk keeps the downhaul aligned properly.

Figure 7 - The downhaul is secured with a jam cleat mounted well forward on the tiller so that it won't interfere with the traveler. The end of the line is terminated with a wall-and-crown knot, which won't allow the downhaul to slip through the hole bored in the tiller.

As I stated earlier, this is certainly not a new idea, just one beginner’s solution to a common problem.

Al's article about building his Penobscot 14: Wee Lass Other articles about rudders:

Skat Rudder & Centerboard Hardware
Skat (Lead weights for rudder)
The Story Of The Sailboat Rudder
Kick-up Rudders: Problem and a Solution
Weighted Rudder
The Joy of Leading

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Rudder downhaul or similar?

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I've got a 23-ft pocket cruiser. There's got to be an easier way to return the rudder to its position for sailing. I've got block and line for retracting it, but have to lean way over the transom to reach down and get it set back in the full vertical position in the water. Any devices or suggestions for addressing this? I've considered a downhaul line like the one that's used to retract it but seems forced and complicated and might interfere with the benefits of a foiled rudder if attached to the forward side of the rudder. Also thought about a rod or dowel in place of the retraction line so that I can push in addition to pull. Let me know if you've got any ideas!

You can use a through bolt to keep the rudder down, but these can be tricky to undo when in a pinch, even as wingnuts make it a bit easier.

One of my previous boats had a very heavy weight attached to the end of the rudder so that gravity would (usually) pull it back down. I'm sure you could rig a line to pull it down, though you'd need some sort of extension added under the non-swinging part of the rudder to let the line's force apply in a downward direction rather than just a forward direction.

I've got a downhaul line on my retractable rudder, and also an uphaul line. My rudder is very buoyant so it's easy to get up, but pretty much have to manually push it down. The downhaul line is basically just to keep it from floating back up while underway. I wish I had a picture, but my uphaul is just on a bracket mounted to the trailing edge of the rudder and pulls it up to a clam cleat. The downhaul is mounted to a bracket on the forward inside part of the rudder and runs up through the rudder frame (cheeks? not sure there's a proper term), then through a hole in the tiller up to the same clam cleat.

I used to slide a boat hook down the trailing edge of the rudder... then pin the rudder in the down position with a pencil. The pencil will break if you accidentally ground, but holds fast to keep the rudder from kicking up from normal water pressure.

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01-06-2022, 18:03
Boat: Noelex 25 trailer sailer	, then fill with , then drill the 'required' 6mm hole through the hardened . The idea is to pin the in it's down position. Am I mad? Is it a dumb idea? Your thoughts please Much thanks

01-06-2022, 18:16
Boat: Sabre 402	launching quite a challenge. If you (or any future owner) always launch with a hoist then it won't make any difference for that. Except that it also probably means you will have to wait to ship the rudder until after you've been launched. This will require being held in the slings until the rudder is shipped - which might take a while if there's any wave action in the launching bay. Make sure the rudder has a line to keep it attached to the - you wouldn't want to drop it and have it float away...or sink. It would probably be simpler to have a pennant tied off to a cleat to keep the rudder down. That way it would stay down (just like pinning it) but the pennant could be released in the event that someone, for some reason, wanted the rudder to pivot up.

01-06-2022, 18:50
Boat: Noelex 25 trailer sailer	is a sailer with a swing/pivot rudder. The pin will be removed and the rudder will be lifted for launching and retrieving. The pin is put back with the rudder in the down position. This keeps the rudder nice and snug to the rudder bracket, otherwise the can get a bit heavy (even if the rudder blade moves out a small amount) So my concern is: Is it a good idea? And will the epoxy bond well enough to the rudder, which is laminate. Much thanks

01-06-2022, 22:45
Boat: Dean 440 13.4m catamaran	from my days that this is fairly normal on with folding rudders the only problem is forgetting to remove the pin when returning to the beach / could have fairly expensive results the method you outline (of drilling an oversize hole filling with epoxy and then re-drilling is fine. very conventional cheers,

02-06-2022, 04:53
Boat: 01 Catana 401	or Kevlar based to eliminate the stretch that allows the rudder to move out of position?

02-06-2022, 05:04
Boat: X442	laminate, filled, ready to drill in the correct position once the blade was fitted into the . So yes, good to go as you suggest. And obviously don't beach with the pin in place. Edit: if you think you might forget to remove the pin at any time then you could use some kind of plastic pin, intended to break, and not a metal one.

02-06-2022, 06:36
Boat: Sabre 402	. Saillmonkey's idea for a non stretch pennant is a good alternative, which may be easier to use. The rudder on my 505 pivots with a spring-loaded catch that I can release from the transom, but there is also a pin that has to be inserted to keep the rudder/tiller assembly from lifting off the gudgeons. Inserting the pin is not as easy as releasing the catch.

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Home » LIST of WOODEN BOAT PLANS – By Michael Storer » Viola 14 Sailing Canoe Plan – plywood sailing dinghy » Rigging details for the Viola 14 Sailing Canoe » Build two simple light strong rudderboxes for the Viola 14 sailing canoe and sailboats

Build two simple light strong rudderboxes for the Viola 14 sailing canoe and sailboats

Simpler method of making a rudder setup for sailboats including the Viola 14 canoe is a direct descendant of our original dagger rudderbox carrying on the light but strong and easy to build construction. This article is a resource for sailing canoe and outrigger canoe rudder builders.

Other boats are better off with the dagger rudder for the reasons below.

This section is built around text and images by Joost Engelen about setting up the Viola swing rudder and the design simplifications we worked out.

But overview and discussion between the two types is by Michael Storer.

Viola Sailing Canoe info

More Rigging Details for the Viola 14 Canoe

So why a different rudder setup for a sailing canoe when the dagger system is usually far superior?

On all of our sailing dinghy designs we use a dagger rudder setup with a bungee/shockcord loaded open back.

Apart from older designs from the Northern Hemisphere we seldom see swinging rudders on Australian raceboats.

Epoxy has low clamping pressure – so tape is enough.

They use a dagger system with the blade sliding up and down. Either with an open back or a closed back

Get a PLAN – Bolt placement is CRITICAL and some important contstruction tricks – get it wrong and it will break. Get it right and it will have a very long service life. – the best way to get the design (and details on making spars, super accurate foils, scarfs, butt straps, even sail making) is buy buying the $36 Oz Goose Plan .

The advantages are several.

Simple to make
Strong and very reliable as long as you put in the required bolts
Yes … read the above point again. Don’t forget the designed bolts or it will break very quickly
Steering loads go from tiller to rudderblade directly
Nice accurate light steering in any water depth . Unlike a swinging blade where a little kickback gives almost no reduction in draft but creates very high tiller loads and the risk of breaking the box.
Low loads at speed where a swinging blade at speed it can kick back a little producing very hard to deal with tiller forces.
Handles hitting the bottom – if the blade grounds out it will swing backwards and once over the obstruction will pop back down again.

The big win is very light and positive steering in any depth of water.

Once used it makes so much sense from a practical and construction point of view it is clear why we seldom see swinging rudderblades in the antipodes.

However … with this type of rudder setup, it needs to be pushed down manually. Moving to the back of a skinny light sailing canoe can be tricky. So it is a good idea to have a swinging canoe rudder blade blade and design out as many drawbacks as possible.

There are some important parts of the detail to make it strong.

If it breaks it is your fault for not building it right.

These are non obvious involving the bolt through the tiller and the ply or glass around the end of the tiller to prevent splitting.

The cheapest way to get the most up to date plan for the dagger rudder is to buy the Oz Goose plan for $36.

Buy Oz Goose Plans

Where the Dagger Rudder with kickback came from – Paper Tiger Catamarans circa 1973

I don’t want to claim this as my own work. Like most of my good stuff, it is stolen.

But I am a careful student of excellence that actually works.

In this case, Jay Booth (father of well known International sailor Mitch Booth) took me along to see my first big Catamaran regatta. Saw Paper Tigers for the first time. They are probably the quickest non-trapeze 14ft cats. Very light – 50kg platform (110lbs) plywood or foam/glass.

Ron Given, the designer had come up with the same dagger and kickback rudder setup. As a 13 year old, I mentally went “wow” and filed it away. My first and second boats had swinging rudders and I could see the advantages of the Paper Tiger System.

When I moved up into NS14s I started making and breaking dagger rudder boxes. It took me a few seasons of making rudderboxes this way to get it right. I broke a lot of them before I realised the placement of the bolts was critical. After that – very reliable.

The one flaw of the dagger rudder system – narrow boats.

In many sailing canoes, the stern is quite narrow so it is hard to go to the back of the boat to manually push the canoe rudder blade down. Wobbles and potential or real capsize!

So with the Viola 14 Sailing Canoe, we needed something that worked well but had the maximum simplicity and minimum weight.

The bad way – poor structural efficiency of a normal swinging rudder leads to heavy and complex construction.

So what were the problems with the usual swinging rudder setup? … Or What are the funny shaped green bits for?

Conventionally the tiller is at the top and the pivot for the rudderblade is at the bottom. This means the torque from turning the tiller has to be transmitted from the top to the bottom by the rudder box.
The spacer is fiddly to get right and prevents full vertical retraction of the blade
If spacer is omitted the cheeks have to be very thick.

In comparison the dagger system has two faces of 5mm ply and a single spacer 25 thick running up the front edge. No special shaping and all the components can be light because the rudderbox is very lightly loaded. Even if it hits something the blade is free to move backwards.

So as the principle of the dagger rudder setup is that the tiller turned the blade directly – the box was not carrying any turning loads – then we had to do the same for the swinging canoe rudder.

So the pivot for the swinging rudder moved up to be controlled directly by the tiller. This took the load off the rudderbox.

The internal spacer between the cheeks to be a simple rectangular piece of timber like our drop in boxes saving weight and general messing around with complicated and heavy bits. And the rudder cheeks could be thin like the hull ply. But note that like the dagger rudderbox, the bolts in the structure do important work.

Holding a swinging canoe rudder down – the ways that work and the ways that don’t

If you boat is very slow it is possible to get away with a weighted swinging rudder – even if you choose to ignore Uffa Fox (the father of the planing dinghy some say). That “weight only belongs in Steam Rollers”.

Remember that sailing canoes were the fastest human made means of transport for quite a few decades. So your canoe or outrigger canoe will hit serious speeds at times and you don’t want the rudder coming up a bit on you.

The problem is that even if the boat is a little faster than slow :) the rudder will creep up a little and the tiller loading becomes very high just as you need the best control possible. Not a good thing.

Same if you use bungee to restrict the swinging blade – can’t get the bungee far enough away from the pivot to be useful. And then a bit more speed again up pops the canoe rudder. High tiller loads, veer, splash. Or rudderbox breaks.

It took me a while to understand this too and it led to more than a few capsizes in the Lightweight Sharpies I was sailing at the time. They inherited the swinging rudders from the 12sq metre sharpie class they were derived from.

When the rudder lets go or takes control because the blade has rotated back – this is what happens on a very fast 20ft light dinghy.

In the old days we used stainless steel wire to hold the swinging rudders down totally positively on fast boats. Happily we can now use spectra rope and avoid the steel spikes that rip your skin open like a scalpel after a half season of use.

We often used a relatively weak cheap cleat that would break if we hit anything hard.

Rudder pivot for the Viola 14 Sailing Canoe rudderbox

The rudder downhaul is necessary to keep the foil down. The uphaul is optional; not really necessary when just using the boat for sailing since the foil will float up nicely (after all it is all timber with some glass!), but necessary for when using the boat for cruising and having to paddle (when paddling hard the rudder will start to steer the boat which is annoying).

Insert the swinging rudder blade in the rudder stock so that the holes in the rudder stock and the hole in the foil taking the bolt line up. Insert the bolt and put the nuts on. Use big washers on the outside of the bolt to distribute the forces over a larger surface.

Do not overtighten the nuts on the bolt, just tighten them up by hand. Too tight and your swinging rudder won’t swing! If using 2 nuts on each end, one can tighten these against each other using spanners and this will avoid them coming loose. Use cap nuts, or better Nyloc nuts on the outside to avoid having any sharp bits. If using Nylocs you don’t need a lock bolt

If you can get a bolt with a plain shaft then do so.

Downhaul for the Viola 14 Rudderbox

The downhaul ends up in a clam cleat. One could use a auto release clam cleat if afraid for hitting something with the canoerudder unexpectedly (SD-002570 Auto-Release Cleat). The rudder is not very deep though, but make your choice in accordance with your specific needs.

A cheaper way is to use a cleat that will break or slip if you hit something hard. We used to use something like this in a fairly small size to go with the 3mm rope we used.

In the photos the downhaul consists of a 3mm rope with Dyneema core pre-lead line and a regular polyester 4mm control line that stretches. Due to the stretch in the downhaul control line it is easier to tension the downhaul and to get it out of the cleat again.

To obtain the correct position for the hole in the swinging rudder blade for the downhaul attachment, rotate the board in the cassette until the leading edge of the rudder passes the aft bottom corner of the rudder cassette.

Mark this place and drill the hole just below this mark to ensure that the downhaul attachment point will clear the rudder box when the rudder rotates in its case.

Obviously you will need to drill the hole 20mm or so back from the leading edge.

It would be wise making an epoxy bushing for the downhaul attachment hole which is very simple to make as follows:

drill the hole oversize first,
fill the hole with epoxy glue using packaging tape on the other side and,
only then (when the glue has hardened) drill the final 4mm hole necessary for the 3mm pre-lead line. This avoids any potential water ingress.

Rudder Uphaul for the Viola Sailing Canoe Swinging Rudderbox

The rudder uphaul is very important for paddling the canoe. If the canoe rudder drags in the water then steering with the paddle doesn’t work very well as the boat will slowly turn left or right. Or the nose will blow away from a cross wind.

The rudder uphaul is a very simple affair on the Viola 14 canoe.

A hole is drilled in the rudder head aft of the centreline of the foil and a rope is attached to this hole by a simple knot on the opposite side of the where the clam cleat for the uphaul is located (please refer to the first photo of the Viola canoe rudder setup and its controls above for the exact location of the hole in the rudder head).

Obviously, the same comments apply in respect of making an epoxy bushing for the uphaul attachment hole.

The rudder uphaul runs directly to the clam cleat. Very simple and it works great.

A 900mm long tiller extension is suggested mounted right at the front of the tiller.

All our sailboats have these types of rudderbox for ease of building and pure useful function.

Our Plans are really well thought through.

MacGregorSailors.com

Discussions relating to the MacGregor line of trailerable sailboats

Main Site Board index MacGregorSailors Forums Repairs and Modifications

Rudder up and downhaul

Post by Chumpy36 » Sat Jul 20, 2024 1:56 am

Re: Rudder up and downhaul

Post by LordElsinore » Sat Jul 20, 2024 3:46 am

Post by Jimmyt » Sat Jul 20, 2024 1:02 pm

Post by Gotro » Sat Jul 20, 2024 3:40 pm

Post by Gotro » Sat Jul 20, 2024 4:41 pm

Post by Gotro » Sat Jul 20, 2024 4:45 pm

Post by Chumpy36 » Sun Jul 21, 2024 1:01 am

Post by NiceAft » Sun Jul 21, 2024 2:27 am

Post by Jimmyt » Sun Jul 21, 2024 3:42 am

Chumpy36 wrote: ↑ Sun Jul 21, 2024 1:01 am I guess i'm still al ittle confused by the stock hold down (Which I still have, just not attached). .. But how does the stock hold down work? Is it supposed to keep it down just like a bolt through the rudder holder? Where does it attach on the top end? How does one use it? Thanks

Post by Chumpy36 » Sun Jul 21, 2024 3:03 pm

Post by Chumpy36 » Mon Jul 22, 2024 3:46 pm

Post by Jimmyt » Mon Jul 22, 2024 6:55 pm

Chumpy36 wrote: ↑ Mon Jul 22, 2024 3:46 pm Here are some pics. I thought I had some of the bottom of the castle and rudder but the aircraft cable just comes out the bottom to attach to the rudder. Do I attach a line to the aircraft cable loop at the top and then use a cleat that will allow the line to pop off if it hits something? Anything else I'm missing?

Post by Chumpy36 » Mon Jul 22, 2024 8:43 pm

Post by Newell » Mon Aug 26, 2024 2:27 am

Chumpy36 wrote: ↑ Mon Jul 22, 2024 8:43 pm Got it. Thanks!

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Laser Sailing - Laser 8:1 Downhaul System

September 26, 2018 3 min read

Laser 8:1 Downhaul System

Current Laser National Champion and Sailing Chandlery sponsored sailor Sam Whaley explains how his Laser 8:1 Downhaul system is rigged and the ropes he uses.

In 2016 the MK2 Laser Standard sail was released and amongst many small improvements on the previous design, the most notable change was an increase in cloth thickness used. Whilst this has meant that the sails are competitive for longer and harder wearing it does have some knock-on effects, such as controls being harder to pull on. This especially applies to the downhaul and with many people previously just using a 6:1 purchase it was simply not powerful enough to pull the correct amount of downhaul on in new sails.

The Laser class rules allow a maximum purchase on the downhaul system to be 8:1 and many sailors started beefing up their systems by adding another block. This trend has swept across the Laser standard world over the past year with almost every single top sailor in the world using this 8:1 downhaul.

Here we will take a look at my version of the 8:1 downhaul . I switched to this system at the beginning of 2018 and despite being sceptical at first it really does make a huge difference, allowing you to be able to depower the sail in the windy conditions even when hiking. I would recommend it to everyone sailing a standard rig and maybe even to small people in a radial who struggle to pull the downhaul on in the big stuff.

Primary Rope Line

For my primary line I use some 5mm dyneema which goes through the sail and then around the gooseneck. I loop it around the gooseneck to avoid the rope getting caught in the boom and save a few grams of weight with less rope. Going any thinner with this primary is risky as there are such high loads on this rope if it snags on anything it can break easily.

I then used a Harken T18 block and attached it to the bottom of the top T29 block using some thinner dyneema. Whilst you can use a bigger block, a T18 block underneath makes the system flow easier as the secondary line does not rub upon movement, therefore less friction.

At the kicker fitting near the bottom I have a simple loop with another T29 block, held up by my sailing watch.

Optimum Time Big Sailing Watch

My system works just like a 6:1 downhaul system, with an added block, so is very easy to rig and is just tied off at the bottom block by my watch as opposed to the top block by the foot of the sail.

As you can see by the picture above my downhaul system is also slanted forwards slightly to stop the rope getting caught in between the boom and the gooseneck.

In conclusion the 8:1 downhaul system is a must have upgrade for Laser sailors, especially standard sailors, and really helps make your Laser easy to control.

Products Used

Here are the products which are used for Sam's 8:1 Laser downhaul system:

5mm Dyneema
4mm Evolution Race Dyneema Core rope
Harken 29mm Soft Attach Block
Harken 18mm Soft Attach Block

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had ordered one on amazon before, received the wrong size received the correct size now :)

A simple moulded part of good quality, supplied quickly and well packed.

Turned out that I had ordered the wrong make, my camcleats being Allen not Harken, however by drilling the two fixings holes out by 1mm and filing two small notches they fitted perfectly.

Super helpful company. Attentive, and quick to deliver.

Second time I have use for this purpose. Really easy to attach to alloy mast and so easy and positive to operate.

We have put the boat on this trolley but not yet used it for launch and recovery. First impressions are very good, It fits together well and is super easy to assemble - it's made to put together and take apart fast if you want to put it in a vehicle etc. It is very lightweight which should be a boon launching and recovering the boat - at the same time it looks strong and well made. Being aluminium we won't have a rust problem either. I was impressed how it fits perfectly wherever it supports the boat. So assuming it performs well in use we are pleased we got this. Very helpful guy on the phone and it came quickly so all good, thanks,

Good service, and fast delivery. Very happy with my large amount of assorted short lengths of rope of many different thicknesses for practising my knots.

Good quality rope that can be spliced. Delivered promptly by the Sailing Chandlery.

Excellent sail, ideal for training and comes with a sailbag, Our only drawback was the long delivery time (2-3 weeks) and having to pay €90 in customs charges all due to Brexit! If Sailing Chandlery had a outlet here in the Republic or in Northern Ireland, business could get much better.

Worked a treat

The Puco hatches I bought hatch really well for hatchy things. Speedy service and great value. Hatch-on!

My Topper sails infinitely better with this new sail, , much faster, came with strap and eye at head, had to unpick and remove the strap to work with my halyard loop. David

I have used Sailboats Chandlery before and as before the service was great and the product as per description. A great and speedy service. I highly recommend Sailboats Chandlery.

I took advantage of the offcut sale to try out some of the more expensive ropes for my limited needs. I have not seen this kind of offer before, and I was able to find some lengths and qualities I would not normally worry about. Great service and sensible prices. Customer focused offers. I also plan to use some of the offcuts to improve my whipping and splicing. Does my son know he is being towed down the Thames with a rope that would be on the more expensive yachts with a breaking strength well over what we need, no. Does it matter - actually yes it does :)

Useful pack for spares box

We received the electric very quickly and it is of great quality. We will definitely use sailing chandlery again.

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Final Word on rudder downhaul

Thread starter Brigg
Start date Feb 12, 2003
Hunter Owner Forums
Smaller Boats

I think there must be a cap on the number of responses and the time on active status for any one topic in this forum, as my last post on this subject did not show up and the topic is sinking fast. Here is what I heard from Hunter Marine on the 260 rudder.I received the following E-mail yesterday from Greg Emerson at Hunter Marine:-------------------------------------------Mr. Franklin,Adding a metal strip to the bottom of the rudder would not create a dangerous situation but I would be concerned that the modification, when complete, would seal the rudder. Otherwise you would take a chance of water intrusion into the foam core. The reason that the rudder is buoyant is to make up-haul of the rudder easier. In previous years the rudder was cored with a structural polyester adhesive and the rudder was much heavier than the current foam cored rudder. During that time we received complaints that the weight contributed to the difficulty in raising the rudder. New Hunter 260's in current production are designed with a plastic pin that is put inplace to hold the rudder in the down position while under way but can easily be sheared off if the rudder were to hit something. Therefore the chance of rudder damage is minimized.I hope that this information is helpful. ThanksGreg Emerson-----------------------------------I think I'll see how much weight it takes to make the rudder neutrally buoyant, and then how hard it is to haul it back up. Then decide if I want to permanently attach some weight and seal the rudder.Brigg

Scott Blahnik

That's useful You stuck with it and at least got some answers. I thought my rudder was made of styrofoam to cut corners on cost. And I wondered why it didn't have a pin in it, which seemed to make sense. My dealer put a pin in which I never use, now I can see that it may be best that I continue not using it(as it doesn't shear).The topic won't go away though,I guarantee!ScottS/V Hello Dolly

Phil Herring

When forum posts go away Hi Brigg,Your earlier reply is at the tail end of the replies to the existing thread... posts are not removed until they have received no replies for 7 days.ph.

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IMAGES

Rudder Craft
James Sailboat Rudder Design How to Building Plans
Wayfarer Rudder Downhaul
Mirror Rudder Downhaul System
Rudder Craft
2:1 rudder single-loop uphaul downhaul

VIDEO

Skeg and Rudder
Sanding, Rudder and Engine
1981 Explorer 45 ketch sailboat rudder and prop shaft repairs
Breezy RS200 training at Itchenor SC
downhaul
DIY How to make a Sunfish Rudder

COMMENTS

How To Build A Laser 8 to 1 Downhaul
The Laser 8:1 downhaul is a popular upgrade to allow you as the sailor to have more control over your sail, which needs de powering on those windy days. In this article we walk you through what you'll need and how to make a Laser 8:1 downhaul system step by step.
Pro Setup for your Rudder & Tiller
With this setup, you can leave your rudder attached to the tiller under your boat cover - this saves time for each sailing session. We also cover how to handle the "fixed" setup while launching ...
A Simple Rudder Downhaul
A Simple Rudder Downhaul. First, a confession up front. This article will not present any ingenious new idea, or reveal some lost secret of the ancient boatbuilder's art. In fact, most boatbuilders likely already have their own favorite rudder downhaul systems. This is merely a greenhorn's account of one step in a long journey on the ...
Get The Most Out Of Your Laser Hardware
Rudder Tie Down To secure my tiller after I've launched I put the rudder blade all the way down and then tie a simple slip knot in the rudder downhaul rope before passing the rope under the notch in the cleat, through the loop in the slip knot and then back through the cleat on the tiller before pulling on hard and cleating off.
ILCA / Laser Rudder Assembly
Complete Assembly: ILCA Rudder Blade, ILCA Rudder Head, 10mm Pivot Bolt, and 4mm Downhaul Line. Class legal for all International Laser Class Association sailing.
Hunter 23.5 Rudder Downhaul Auto Release System
My H23 has a cam style cleat (with the serrated jaws) that holds the downhaul line tight, mounted to the top of the aluminum rudder head. I did once touch a rock with the rudder down, while motoring at maybe 4 or 5 knots. The downhaul line pulled through the cam jaws, stripping the outer line covering from the core, in effect releasing it.
Rudder downhaul or similar?
The downhaul line is basically just to keep it from floating back up while underway. I wish I had a picture, but my uphaul is just on a bracket mounted to the trailing edge of the rudder and pulls it up to a clam cleat.
Rudder Downhaul
Join Date: Mar 2011. Location: Southport CT. Boat: Sabre 402. Posts: 2,815. Re: Rudder Downhaul. Further explanation about removable pin helps. Using a pin with a tapered end will help make it easier to insert while you try to line up the rudder with the hole as the boat bobs around in the water.
Build two simple light strong rudderboxes for the Viola 14 sailing
Build two simple light strong rudderboxes for the Viola 14 sailing canoe and sailboats Simpler method of making a rudder setup for sailboats including the Viola 14 canoe is a direct descendant of our original dagger rudderbox carrying on the light but strong and easy to build construction. This article is a resource for sailing canoe and outrigger canoe rudder builders.
Rudder Downhaul, Group Project
I would like to propose a group project, here on hunterowners.com, to improve the rudder downhaul system used on the 240/260 water ballast boats, with a swing rudder. This is a less than perfect system, on a great boat, that good minds should be able to improve. \u000B1. The first problem is how to...
Rudder up and downhaul
The downhaul connects to the cable which runs around the back of the tiller and is cleated on top of the tiller -often with a release cleat. There is also an uphaul line to raise the rudder, and can be cleated at the tiller as well. Red line is the downhaul and green line is the uphaul.
Laser Sailing
Current Laser National Champion and Sailing Chandlery sponsored sailor Sam Whaley explains how his Laser 8:1 Downhaul system is rigged and the ropes he uses.
Raising the Rudder
The boom vang doubles as our preventer.u000bu000bAlso, as previously mentioned, make sure the downhaul is centered on the edge of the rudder as it is lowered. I would remove the downhaul altogether if it weren't for the fact that the rudder never goes down the last inch without it.
Rudder downhaul routing
I just got my new 2012 Laser, race rigged. I would like to know the exact route the rudder downhaul line should take to the tiller, especially thru the bottom of the two horizontal rods or pins that connect the metal sides. It seems likely that the line needs to be aft of the top pin, but if...
Laser Rudder Downhaul Line
Description Downhaul line for the Laser rudder, pre-cut from 4mm Robline Sirius line for your convenience to 4 feet.
Rudder downhaul line
How does one go about replacing the rudder downhaul line for a 192? That line goes in, and I don't seen a corresponding hole for it to come out, or be knotted, etc. I see what appears to be a plugged up hole on the side of the rudder blade, below where the line goes in. Is this supposed...
C420 Sailboat Tillers and Blades
C420 Rudder (Rigged, V2, White) Zim Sailing. $640.00. Complete rigged rudder including rudder head, blade, and downhaul. Zim V2 rudders are only compatible with Zim C420s. To fit on a PS2000, Vanguard, or LP boat you must order the V1 rudder. Zim 420 rudder blades have a seamless edge that makes for a...
How does a Kick-up rudder stay down? : r/sailing
You cleat the rudder downhaul and upon impact the cleat "breaks away" and releases the downhaul. Every boat I sell (am a dealer of small beach cats from multiple manufacturers) has this style.
H 240
May 10, 2004. #11. 240 rudder cleat. I can lower my rudder without stepping on it by raising the tiller way up, pull the downhaul tight and take a wrap on the cleat, lower the tiller, repeat. this way I ratchet the rudder down in about 4 repetitions. I like the idea of the releasing cleat for running aground.
Final Word on rudder downhaul
I think there must be a cap on the number of responses and the time on active status for any one topic in this forum, as my last post on this subject did not show up and the topic is sinking fast. Here is what I heard from Hunter Marine on the 260 rudder.\u000BI received the following E-mail...